Due to how dogma works, it's impossible to have stacking penalties on regular modules and have them absent on rigs

[blink]FFS, people! CCP Rise didn't say he was making Rigors/Flares stacking penalized. He said that the MGC/MGE modules on Sisi didn't have their attributes stacking penalized yet, and it would be corrected in the next Sisi build.[/blink]

The modules will stack with each other. They will NOT stack with Rigors/Flares or implants or skills that affect explosion radius/velocity and flight time/speed.


FYI, the MGC/MGE modules are NOT fully implemented on Sisi:
* neither module shows the flight time bonus
* they still show the pre-nerf values
* the MGC Precision script modifies: "aoeCloudSizebonus", "aoeVelocityBonus", "explosionDelayBonus", and "missileVelocityBonus"...
* the MGC II requires Trajectory Analysis which is a Gunnery skill...
* and apparently, the attributes on the MGC/MGE aren't stacking penalized yet.


/it's_like_the_35_second_reload_applies_to_people's_brains_as_well...

Well 2 t2 rigors + 1 t2 flare will have pretty much same efficiency as now. When you pimp out missile range, you don't fit 3 hydraulic bay thrusters, right?

ok i got it : so they are boosting missile ships but first step is nerfing them... this looks more and more some sort of "freighter boost", so in the end you will need to fit one of the new mods to get about the stats you had before "boost"... so i got an ideea:

CCP Rise pls don't boost missile ships!

The best they would give us is "going live with these modules, we'll see how they do!". And given the next month of people using them to see if they are worth it, we will see them declare OP success. Meanwhile, in terms of total damage dealt increases with missiles, "the logs will show nothing".

These modules replace Ballistic Controls, Tanking modules, Tackle, E-war, or other midslot utility. Each of those things either make missiles do more damage, or give missile ships more staying power on grid through tank/enemy disruption/self support, or hold enemy ships in place (tackle) longer, allowing missiles to be fired for longer, thus doing more damage.

Considering that July will be the month of experimenting with these live on TQ... If AUGUST sees more total PVP missile damage done, then OP success. Because the decrease in Tank/E-war/Tackle/rawDPS is being successfully compensated for with more application, and there are use cases for these modules to be helpful to groups. Whether these relegate missile ships to tankless back line snipers to make your blaster tackle more potent on the enemy, or decloak wonder-death, then they have ultimately found use by the comunity. Which i guess works out to a net gain for missile ships.

I for one wouldn't mind flying no tank long range missile ships that hide behind the back line logi and hammer on larger targets or tackled targets to help break them. Their potential power in allowing Rapid fit Caracals to put dps pressure on "safe" logi or e-war ships just kiting the field might be something tremendously useful.

Eve is waiting.

Sounds about right, 18 pages of 'you're doing it right' followed by about half a dozen of 'the revision is bad'

Rarely have the community been so unified so naturally we'll not be listened to

is it just me or has the amount of interaction / back-and-forth between the community and the dev's decreased in these balancing threads?

I am sure we used to have some blue bar's appear just about everyday back at the beginning of teircide and the balance pass. These days its "here are the new numbers" then if we are lucky an "ok we had a read and have changed the numbers slightly".

I honestly believe that missiles are a nightmare to balance, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. The reason Rise gave for toning down the numbers seems to suggest that their is no effort to keep missiles as a unique weapon system. It bothers me that Rise has refused some changes to drones so they remain different and does a 180 in this thread.

2 years, and once again - nothing's changed.

To be fair if it's not fleet pvp then the range is basically irrelevant as it's well beyond your effective tackle limits. It's also still 80% effective at 90km alone and can be linked to be improved.

Hell a target painter even helps your drones.

Edit:

TP bonuses:

• Assists everyone on every level - damage, drones, lock time, even bombs.
• Less than half the fitting cost
• Remains >=80% effective before links out to 90km. That's 50% further than HML out the box and about the max effective engagement range of a caracal with a bonus. So really this presents an "issue" for cruise hulls and cerberus.
• Cycle time is not an issue nor is juggling targets because the HML speed is sufficiently low, that the 5 second cycle time of the TP means that effectively being able to miss a cycle is almost irrelevant because it would be so rare.
• As discussed infowar links boost this mod making it massively more effective and at serious ranges
• Fall off/optimal is irrelevant at small scale because you're going to be in range anyway to hold tackle. At the fleet scale...links baby. And also no-one uses missiles in fleets ever.
• Really, NO-ONE uses a missile fleet. Not even the most special of snowflakes.

The MGC....well for tiny targets there's an arguable bonus, however to lose all of the above....no thanks.

I suppose it can also change scripts mid fight so you can shoot further than your lock range. YAY, said no-one ever. People won't be flipping scripts mid fight. Ever. Range scripts would require a build around them, not a swap in combat.